Wayne's Triumph Motorcycles

Leroy Turner starts restoration of a 1965 T120R Bonneville for our collection, Part 3 of a multi-part blog…Lacing and truing the wheels...

One of the more difficult tasks for any restorer is correctly lacing and truing the wheel hubs, spokes and rims. Many restorers find this a tedious and overly challenging process and so they elect to sublet the work to others who may have more proficiency in this task.

Leroy Turner is one of the exceptions in this regard. Although he finds the work tedious to say the least, he almost always laces and trues the wheels on his restorations because that way he knows they are done correctly.

Leroy admits it can sometimes take several hours to get a wheel just right, but for him the sense of accomplishment in the task when done correctly is worth the effort.

In this posting we aren’t trying to provide the details on how to true lace and true wheels. For details about that, there are many other sources, including some great articles that have appeared over the years in “Vintage Bike”, the excellent quarterly magazine of the Triumph International Owner’s Association. (You can subscribe to Vintage bike, search past issues for topics you may be interested in and purchase back issues of the magazine at vintagebikemagazine.com.)

We asked Leroy to give us some of the lacing tips he has discovered over the years and here are a few of interest:

#1. Take many pictures of the wheel before disassembly or have another properly laced wheel to use as a reference. Once disassembled, it can be difficult to remember how the wheel was originally laced. Leroy says it is very easy to get confused especially if you don’t perform this task but once or twice a year like he does. Make sure you measure the offset before disassembly … it will make your job a lot easier later on.

#2 Make certain that your rims are straight before having them chromed. Roll the rim across a straight surface like a glass table top. They should roll straight and true. Do the same thing after they are chromed just to make sure. Leroy says a slight glitch may be noticed where the rim is welded but if it is small, it shouldn’t be a problem.

You can’t purchase new Dunlop rims any more but Devon makes exact versions of the original Dunlops, except the trademark shows “Devon” rather than “Dunlop”. We have Devon rims on several of our restored rider Triumphs. For Triumphs on display in our collection, we always use Dunlop rims. But the Devons are really well made and beautiful and although they are somewhat pricey, they work excellently on our nicer rider machines.

#3 Make certain the Dunlop trademark is facing the proper way. We have noticed on original factory assembled machines, the trademark on the front wheel is always toward the right ... the brake side. So if the bike is on the side stand, you should be able to read the Dunlop trademark from the right side.

We have noted that the rear wheel trademark isn’t always facing to the right on original machines. With the rear rims, you need to make certain that the valve stem is in front of the closest wheel lock hole in the rim, even though the trademark may be facing the other way. Then it can be laced correctly as it came from the factory.

On another issue, we have reported in this blog that we have occasionally come across Jones front rims on Triumphs. We at first assumed these were aftermarket replacements but several people have made comments that Triumph indeed occasionally used Jones rims, not Dunlop, during assembly. We’ve confirmed this fact and the bikes we have seen this on most of the time are 500cc competition machines. But there were undoubtedly other models that were sent out with Jones rims from the factory.

#4 If you are looking to perform a correct restoration, you need to be careful that the spokes you are using are the same as came on the original bike. On many restorations, the spokes are in good enough shape to be reused. The spokes need to be replated, of course, and the nipples need to be in good condition, or be replaced. When reusing spokes in good shape, there is no problem as long as they are correctly plated and properly laced.

Leroy has noticed, however, that many aftermarket spokes, especially the lower priced ones, do not have the same shape as the originals. They will work but they just don’t look like the originals. Most observers wouldn’t notice the difference, but when we evaluate the quality of a restoration, the spokes are one of the first things we look at. If they aren’t like the originals, the restoration quality of the rest of the bike is suspect in our minds. Please note that we believe the correct spokes in stainless steel are perfectly acceptable.

Leroy almost always uses Buchanan stainless steel spokes on the restorations that require new spokes. On the ’65 Bonneville he is restoring for us right now, the old spokes just weren’t good enough to be used so we purchased Buchanan stainless for the bike. They are exactly the same shape as the original spokes and although they cost a few more dollars, they are well worth it.

For stainless steel spokes and nipples, Buchanan supplies a special lubricant that must be used as shown in this picture.

#5 You need to make certain that you grind down the ends of the spokes far enough so they can’t puncture the tube once the wheel is assembled as shown below.

#6 Lacing of ’65 and earlier Triumphs is done with the correct “nailhead” spokes while ’66 and later use hook type spokes. The nailhead spokes can easily fall out of the rim during assembly but Leroy has found an ingenious way to prevent that. He uses golf tees to keep the heads in place during assembly as shown in this picture.

Here are sequential pictures of the lacing and truing process that Leroy performed on our ’65 Bonneville…

Next … Assembling the engine ...

 

Leroy Turner starts restoration of a 1965 T120R Bonneville for our collection, Part 2 of a multi-part blog…Getting the paint correct ...

Before Ed Carlson could start painting our tank and fenders, we needed to make certain
that we had the correct Pacific Blue paint. We have noticed a greater variation in paint color on restored Pacific Blue ’65 Bonnevilles than any other Triumph model.

Fortunately, our friend Mike Crone, who owns about 85 vintage Triumphs in Florida, has an
original ’65 Bonneville. We knew we could confirm our color and paint scheme with him before having Ed begin the tank and fenders.  The original was painted in lacquer at the factory but ours would be done with modern base coat/clear coat paint.

Mike Crone's original 1965 Bonneville ...

We asked Mike to provide pictures of the way the pin stripping is done on the original tank so Ed Carlson could match that design perfectly. Also we had Mike measure the stripes on the fenders to make certain we would replicate it as it was on the original machines.

Here are Mike’s pictures of the tank paint design on the original ’65 T120 showing how the pin stripping is barely visible from the side. The stripping bends in just before the petcock as seen in Mike’s pictures. This is a small detail that many restorers miss. Most restored tanks we’ve seen (we own some of them unfortunately) are painted so the pin stripping can see clearly seen from the side … that is incorrect.

Mike’s fender stripe measurement showed that the original factory Pacific Blue stripe was 11/16” thick with a 1/8” overlapping gold pin stripe. That meant the visible blue stripe on the fender should end up being 9/16”.

Rather than try to match the Pacific Blue paint color from scratch, Ed decided to buy a pint of the ’65 Bonneville paint from Don Hutchinson in Massachusetts. This was a gamble and an expensive choice at over $100 for a pint, but was the easiest way to go if it matched up with Mike Crone’s original paint color. Ed sprayed out a sample … silver base and three coats of the Hutchison paint. When I received the paint sample from Ed, it looked correct to me, but the real proof was how it matched up with Mike Crone’s original. I sent Ed’s sample off to Florida.

Fortunately, Mike received the sample during Bike Week in Florida and Randy Baxter from Baxter Cycles, Marne, Iowa was staying with Mike. Mike and Randy together were able to see that our Hutchison paint sample shade was correct but not as deep as it needed to be. They suggested that four coats of blue rather than three would match the original paint perfectly. With that information, Ed Carlson was ready to go.

On a conference call, Leroy, Ed and I discussed the exact measurements of the fender stripes that Mike Crone had given us. Unfortunately there was some confusion that resulted in Ed’s finished blue stripe being only 7/16” wide … a full 1/8” too small. Here are pictures of the fenders with the incorrect width stripes that Leroy took after picking up the fenders in Tucson.

This meant, of course, that Ed would have to repaint the stripes again which he did … this time to the correct width of 9/16”.

The tank scheme and color turned out perfectly and the tank is now in El Paso awaiting the final assembly of the bike. Here are pictures of it.

In the meantime, Leroy had all of the chrome redone at Electroplate of El Paso. He sent me the chromed badges and I painted them to original specs this week. (See our earlier posting on badge painting for more information.)

All powder coating has been completed and Leroy now has the main frame assembled with the rear frame and shocks, awaiting the completion of the engine.

Next posting … lacing up the wheels ...

Leroy Turner starts restoration of a 1965 T120R Bonneville for our collection, Part 1 of a multi-part blog…

Over the last few years, Leroy Turner has emerged as one of the best restorers of Triumph motorcycles in the US. Although he doesn’t have the national reputation of the better known restorers, Leroy’s attention to detail and finish work is some of the finest to be found and he is quickly making a name for himself. We do not have one of Leroy’s beautiful restorations in our collection yet, but that is all about to change.

We have commissioned Leroy to restore a 1965 Bonneville that we obtained about a year ago. It is an ideal candidate for this project as it is a very complete donor bike with all of its critical parts and sheet metal in good condition. Once this 1965 Bonneville is finished, it will be put on display in our collection. It will free up the current ’65 T120R that Dave Wedlake finished for us in 2007 to be sold on this website. The Wedlake Bonneville is a beautiful machine that we have enjoyed having in the collection, but as we have almost 20 Wedlake restorations in the collection and no Turners, we decided it was time to change that.

Our restoration work started in January when Leroy visited our shop in Apache Junction. In just a few hours, we stripped much of the ’65 donor bike down and handed off the tank, fenders and other parts to be painted to our painter Ed Carlson from Tucson. Ed happened to be visiting us in Apache Junction on his way back from the Las Vegas auction.

Leroy then loaded the remaining parts in his van and set off to his shop in El Paso where the rest of the restoration would be done.

It was obvious that our donor bike had seen many changes over the years ... some not so good. Virtually all of the hardware had been replaced with incorrect fasteners as can be seen below where "Home Depot" grade bolts and nuts were used. It had no center stand, incorrect seat (which we would be replacing anyway) as well as the wrong exhaust pipes and silencers.The oil tank was welded by an amateur but fortunately, the person we bought the bike from knew this and had provided a nice replacement tank as part of the sale.

Within a few days of returning home, Leroy had already gotten into the engine. We had originally thought that the engine hadn’t had much work done on it in the past 47 years as it still had its original Phillips head screws in the cases. Our experience has been that if the engine is worked on very much, these screws usually experience damage and most are replaced by hex heads over the life of the machine.

This time we were very wrong. When Leroy removed the head, he not only found that the standard pistons had been replaced, but that the existing pistons were .080 over and severly scored. It looks like the engine had probably been rebuilt at least four times! The jug had been bored out each time, of course, so it was unusable for our restoration. Leroy set out to find a new jug and pistons for our bike. It is amazing what you can find if you know who to ask … within a few days of putting out feelers within our restorer’s community, Leroy had located a new jug with a standard bore and the correct pistons for our engine.

Leroy also discovered that the crankshaft seal had mysteriously been inverted. This is a strange phenomenon that he has seen before but can’t explain. In any case, this won’t be an issue with the engine being completely rebuilt.

Leroy discovered the left side engine plate and foot peg were a mess. Evidently, there had been a bolt failure at some point and rather than locate the correct replacement hardware, someone had drilled out the holes to take 5/16” “Home Depot” bolts. This drives us crazy when we find amateur fixes like this as it is almost impossible to repair such damage. Luckily, we have access to another correct engine plate and a proper foot peg.

We determined that the bike had been converted to a 12 volt system with electronic ignition. To be a factory spec machine, we need to revert back to the original 6 volt setup. I was lucky to find a new 3 wire stator and 6 volt coils, just like the originals, that will be perfect for the ’65.

Right now, the bike is completely broken down and engine is all apart. The chrome parts have been sent out to Electroplating of El Paso. The next major step is the engine rebuild that Leroy will start on now that he has completed the restoration on our friend Mike Johnson’s 1969 BSA 441 shown below.

Upcoming in Part 2 … Ed Carlson completes the paintwork and Leroy gets further into the engine …

Terry Clark begins restoration of another 1938 Speed Twin! Part 4 of a multi-part posting …Challenging discoveries ...

Since our last report in January, Terry Clark has been finally getting into some of the more challenging aspects of his 1938 Speed twin restoration.

After waiting until the weather warmed up a bit in the Seattle area, he started tackling the disassembly of the bike. He sent the rims to the chrome shop and they should be back the middle of April when they can be sent off to the painter.

Terry found that the Mag/Dyno is in very, very bad condition.  It looks like it has been underwater for most of its life, with lots of mold and rusty and frozen bearings.  

Luckily, Terry found a semi-retired electrical design engineer in Ontario who specializes in restoring magnetos and dynamos. He completes all work in house and tests each unit for a minimum of 6 hours.  Although the restoration will be expensive, it’s guaranteed and will be better and more reliable than new. If interested, his contact information is Gregg Kricorissian mailto:gregg-k@spyder-it.com

As reported in a past blog, Terry was having trouble mounting the original tool box as it interfered with the rear fender. A gentleman in the UK was kind enough to send Terry extremely good pictures of the Speed Twin in the National Motorcycle Museum and the pictures confirmed Terry’s suspicions that the lower bracket uses a spacer.  Many thanks go out to John B for his assistance!

Terry had planned to swap the original 3 piece crankshaft for an updated one but he has changed his mind. The engine internals although dirty, show very little wear and he can still use the standard bores.  So Terry’s going to use the original crank as the journals also show very little wear.

Terry found the cam bushings are excellent with no sign of wear. He’s located a company in eastern Washington State that does babbiting and they have agreed to do a single piece. The company is owned by an old motorcycle racer and they do work on farm equipment which uses babbited cranks and rods. Terry sent them the pieces last week and is looking forward to seeing how they turn out.

Terry pulled the wheel bearings out and they are very nasty and will need replacing. These bearings are not readily available and are expensive at around $80 each and since Terry needs four of them, it’s not an insignificant cost.

Terry is now in the process of cleaning the years of accumulated grease and dirt from all the parts so they are ready for paint at the end of April.  That is when we plan our next report on his challenging restoration.  In the meantime, you can check out more pictures of the restoration in our photo album.

We received this interesting comment on Terry's '38 from Gary Smith in Australia ...

"HI there from Oz, Just thought you may be under rating the Speed Twins with only fitting the 85 MPH speedo's ? Probably optional in the days but I thought they usually had the 120 MPH speedo fitted ? From memory in 1939 they brought out the Revolator type speedo as an option as well !"

Here is Terry's response ...

"The parts book shows the 120 and the 80 but doesn’t indicate which is which or which may be an optional fitment. As mine is a very early '38, I’m inclined to use the 80mph without a revelator face.  Also that’s what I have.

My '37 T90 has a 80 mph revelator but that’s probably not correct.  If I do find that the '38 uses the revelator, I have an NOS revelator face for it. I believe the '39 is correct with a 120mph Speedo.

If anyone knows for sure, any proof one way or the other would be appreciated."

Followup to our 2012 Las Vegas auction report .....

In our report from Las Vegas last month, we described the gaff that Midamerica auction made on the auction of Leroy Turner's beautiful 1968 Triumph TR6C.  You can see our entire report at this link ... http://triumphmotorcycles.typepad.com/my_weblog/2012/01/report-from-the-2012-las-vegas-motorcycle-auctions-.html 

In brief, here is what how we described what Midamerica did with Leroy's bike ....

"What happened during the bidding on Leroy’s TR6C still isn’t clear, but there seemed to have been a major miscommunication amongst the Midamerica staff that resulted in the reserve being pulled early followed by an immediate hammer down. The bike sold at a very low price of $9750, close to $4000 less than was bid on the Hoard bike.

Leroy was very disappointed to say the least and while Midamerica tried to make amends by giving Leroy credit for his reserve price, it was clear that he left the auction with far less in his pocket than he should have due to the Midamerica gaff.

The lesson to be learned from Leroy’s experience is protect yourself with a higher reserve that can always be pulled during the bidding if necessary."

Well, our assessment of seriousness of the Midamerica error has proved to be correct.  The successful buyer of Leroy's bike posted it on EBay only three weeks after the auction and was able to quickly "flip" the bike for $13,500 earning a healthy net profit of over $3000 for himself. 

As long as EBay maintains it, here is a link to the completed sale of the bike on EBay.   

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-Trophy-1968-Triumph-TR6C-Trophy-Special-650cc-Restored-Concourse-British-Motorcycle-/290669047984?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item43ad39b0b0

Our compliments to the seller on his posting.  His success is the result of not only having a very high quality item to sell but an excellent job of marketing the bike with large high resolution photos that really show off the bike's quality. Several of those pictures are included in this posting.

Our 1964 Bonneville T120R rider is finished …

In the summer of 2010, we noticed an interesting 1964 Bonneville advertised on the Seattle craigslist.  The bike was described as being “all there” but mostly in pieces.  It was located in Everett, WA about 25 miles from our home as it was an easy trip to go check it out.

 We found the owner of the bike was a long time motorcycle enthusiast who had owned and ridden this particular bike for many years.  He started to restore it years earlier then lost interest when he discovered, among other things, that he had painted the bike the wrong color.  Note: ’64 Bonnevilles were painted gold and so were the ’65 TR6s but the two shades of gold were very different.  The owner mistakenly painted his in the ’65 TR6 color which was “Burnished Gold”, a golden color with a bit of mustard tint to it whereas it should have been “Triumph Gold” which is a brighter more metallic hue first seen on the fender stripes of the ‘63 Bonneville.  Below is a picture of the “before and after” tank so the difference in color is easily seen. 

 Fortunately, the Alaskan white paint on the sheet metal was well done and accurate so we knew that we’d only have to carefully re-spray everything with the correct color and reapply the pinstripping, a task that Dave Wedlake, who agreed to paint and buildup this bike, could certainly accomplish.

We negotiated a price of $4500 for the bike which included a ton of extra parts from other bikes.  We knew the parts alone were worth well over $1500 if sold separately, so the effective price of the bike would only about $3000.  We bought the bike and transported it home in our trailer. 

 
After performing a brief inventory and photographing all of the parts, we put the pictures online on our Smugmug account and sent Dave Wedlake and Leroy Turner the links.  They reviewed the pictures and together we were able to divide the inventory into four groups …

1.  The ’64 T120R engine parts that we’d send to Leroy in El Paso for the engine restoration.   

2. The remaining parts from the ’64 T120R that we would take to Dave Wedlake to build up the bike,

3.  Usable parts that we wanted to keep for future restorations and

4. Parts we wouldn’t likely ever use that were to be sold. 

We put the sales parts up on EBay and within two weeks we had over $1500 as we thought.  The engine parts were shipped to Leroy in El Paso in Rubbermaid containers, a procedure we have described several times elsewhere in this website. We took all of the remaining ’64 parts to Dave Wedlake in Portland, Oregon a few weeks later.

Leroy got right to work on the engine restoration as soon as he received it.  He really likes to get the engine apart quickly so he can determine its condition and start planning his parts needs.  In the past, he needed to pull the engine to see its condition.  In this case, he only needed to inventory the parts and determine their condtion. 

Leroy found both good and bad in the engine … the pistons were .040 over and still within tolerance so it would just require honing and new pistons rings to work well.  Unfortunately, the crankcase had a chunk knocked out as well as many cracks and a bent bolt in the front end where it had been damaged at some point.  Leroy advised Dave that he would have to send that out to be welded and machined before it could be vapor blasted.  So even though the internal engine components were in good shape, the work needed to the broken case was going to push the cost of restoring this engine higher than we had hoped. Leroy only needed to spend about $175 for the other parts required completing the engine but reworking the case was over $200 by itself.  Ledroy sent all of the larger parts back to Dave in Oregon to have vapor blasted.

Further on the positive side, I determined that chrome plating would be needed on only a few parts, including the rear rim, exhaust collars, badges, shifter, kicker and fork nuts.   Since this was to be a rider and not a full restoration for our collection (we already have a beautiful ’64 Bonneville restored by Garry Chitwood on display), we felt the remaining chrome parts, including the front rim, would work just fine.

I knew it would be some time before Dave was able to get the paintwork done, but we still expected completion of this machine in the summer of 2011. Dave felt he could handle the gold re-spray without reworking the Alaskan white on the sheet metal and not have any distinguishable buildup when the new gold paint was applied over the old.  It turns out he was correct.  Once the pin stripping was complete, all of the paint is perfectly flat with no lines or ridges.

In the spring of 2011, Leroy dropped the completed engine off at our shop in Apache Junction.  Since we were hoping Dave Wedlake could build up the bike to ride in the summer of 2011, we elected to ship the engine to Dave via Fedex Ground rather than transport it via trailer to Portland in June when we returned to Seattle.  That turned out to be a big mistake as somehow one of the carburetors had a stud broken off in transit.  It set Dave back quite some time figuring out how to extract the stud and eliminated any chance for us to have the bike for the summer.  In the end, we returned to Arizona with the bike still on Dave’s bench in Portland.

Last month, we were able to have one of our friends from the Pacific Northwest transport the ’64 T120R to Las Vegas along with another new acquisition, a 1963 Tiger Cub TS20 scrambler (subject of an upcoming blog but pictures now available in the photo album). We transported the bikes back to Apache Junction from the auction in our trailer.

You can see many pictures of the finished bike in our photo album along with pictures of how the bike looked in pieces when we bought it. 

In the end, we are into the bike for close to what it is worth … about $11,500.  It wouldn’t have taken much more to perform a full restoration on this bike and it would have been valued at over $14,000 if we had done that.  But this bike was always designated to be ridden.  Had it been a full restoration, we would have done certain things differently such as retaining the stock points ignition rather than the electronic system we installed.

One of our friends thinks it may be too nice to ride but we don’t feel that way.  We can’t wait to get out on the open road on this one in the next few weeks.

 

Report from the 2012 Las Vegas Motorcycle Auctions ……

Both Auctions America and Midamerica auctions appeared to be very successful based upon the number of people attending and the successful sell through percentage of machines at each venue.

Note: We didn’t attend the Bonham’s auction which was one day only (Thursday) since there were no motorcycles offered that we were interested in. The 2012 Bonham Las Vegas results have been posted at the following link: http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19679/

In general, the sales prices seemed as high at Midamerica as last year. Our take was that prices at Midamerica were higher than those achieved at Auctions America.

Attendance

Midamerica seemed to have just as many attendees as in the past and with their sales prices remaining relatively high, the general consensus was that the new AA auction at the Rio didn’t seem to have a significant negative impact on them in any way.

Auctions America attendance was light at first, especially on Friday morning when we counted only about 125 people in attendance. Fortunately for AA, once word got out that there were some real bargains on Thursday night, we saw many of the Midamerica “regulars” show up to check it all out. By Saturday afternoon, there was a full complement of bidders on hand at the Rio.

We had a difficult time coordinating our attendance at each auction because of the 10 miles separating them. In the end, we spent about 70% of our time at Auctions America and about 30% at Midamerica with 4 or 5 roundtrips between the venues.

How did the two auctions compare to each other?

Midamerica retained tight control on entry to the South Point event as in years past. Even if you were a registered bidder, you needed to purchase a $15 or $20 wrist band to get you into the Midamerica auction.

There was no such restriction at AA where anyone interested in attending could simply walk through the door.

Our opinion was that there was higher quality British bikes at Midamerica than at AA and the auction prices certainly reflected that. One of our friends who is well versed in Harley Davidsons thought the offering at AA was better than at Midamerica.

We were told that Midamerica had a full auction consignment with a waiting list and the event floor seemed to have as many machines as we’ve ever seen. AA also had a full complement of about 500 machines for sale but with the much larger venue at the Rio, it didn’t seem as cramped as Midamerica.

Midamerica had the same “for hire” auctioneers and floor staff as in the past. In contrast, Auctions America by RM brought their professional crew to Las Vegas. We’ve seen this well oiled staff at RM’s car auctions and if you have ever watched the television show “What’s My Car Worth” you’ve seen this crew in action.

Auctions America served a terrific sit down filet mignon dinner on Thursday night. As in years past, we understand Midamerica offered an unexciting buffet once again. Throughout the auction, AA offered complimentary breakfast and food on the observation deck behind the bidding floor. Midamerica trusted that their attendees would be satisfied with the South Point operated hot dog booth adjacent to the auction floor.

AA had a bar set up in close proximity to the action. While the drink prices were a bit steep, free drink cards were handed out to many of the bidders and consignors.

Observations and information on Midamerica

We saw the Midamerica crew stumble several times during the auction and they made a major gaff on the sale of Leroy Turner’s 1968 Triumph TR6C.

On Friday morning, another 1968 TR6C was put across the block at Midamerica. It was very nice machine restored by Bill Hoard and it achieved a high bid of $13,500, just short of its reserve of $14,000. It went into the “corral” with an asking price of $14,000.

Leroy’s TR6C, which was as good a restoration as Bill Hoard’s, came up later that afternoon but had a much lower reserve. The expectation was that the bike would nevertheless sell for a price close to what was bid for the Hoard bike.

What happened during the bidding on Leroy’s TR6C still isn’t clear, but there seemed to have been a major miscommunication amongst the Midamerica staff that resulted in the reserve being pulled early followe by an immediate hammer down. The bike sold at a very low price of $9750, close to $4000 less than was bid on the Hoard bike.

Leroy was very disappointed to say the least and while Midamerica tried to make amends by giving Leroy credit for his reserve price, it was clear that he left the auction with far less in his pocket than he should have due to the Midamerica gaff.

The lesson to be learned from Leroy’s experience is protect yourself with a higher reserve that can always be pulled during the bidding if necessary.

Midamerica used to take up to two weeks to get the results posted online from the Las Vegas auction, but a little competition from AA must have changed that. The results were posted in only a few days this time and are available at the following link: http://www.midamericaauctions.com/auction-items/?tyf=motorcycle&orderdropdown=PriceDescending&aid=854&type=motorcycle&myear=&make=&lotnumber=&submit=Filter

Results of interest at Midamerica:

1. The highest bid and actual sale was on a 1915 Ivor Johnson Twin … $280,000.

2. The highest bid on a Triumph was for Steve McQueen’s 1938 Speed Twin … $84,000

3. The highest actual Triumph sale was a 1973 X-75 Hurricane … $30,000.

Observations and information on Auction America

The 2012 Las Vegas Auctions America by RM auction was an amazingly well organized event given the short timeline from its initial announcement in October.

There were a larger number of no reserve offerings than anyone expected. The Friday auctioneer at AA even announced that over 65% of the machines going across the block that day would be at no reserve.

We estimate that about 100 bikes remained unsold by the end of the auction, which is higher the number of unsold machines that we saw at Midamerica.

There were many “core bikes” offered at AA. These bikes are well sought after by restorers and have rarely been seen at Midamerica auctions in the past. We hope this continues at AA in the future.

The Auctions America auction results were posted online within an incredible 48 hours after the auction ended! Caution … the prices include the 12% Buyer’s Premium so to see the actual sale price, divide by 1.12.

2012 results can be found at the following link: http://www.auctionsamerica.com/events/all-lots.cfm?SaleCode=LV12

Auctions America announced that their next two Las Vegas auctions would be at the Paris Las Vegas Hotel and Casino which is right on the Strip!

Results of interest at AA:

1. The highest bid was on a 1894 Roper … $425,000. This is one of the earliest motorcycles ever made. Reportedly there is only one other and it is in the Smithsonian.

2. The highest actual sale was a 1964 Ducati 250 F3 Corsa … $72500.

3. The highest Triumph sale was a 1969 Triumph T150 Trident … $10,400.

Our 2012 sales and buying experience in Las Vegas

We sold one motorcycle, had one “no sale” and bought two others.

1. Our Honda CB400F sold on Thursday night at the Auctions America dinner. Thursday nights are typically when the lowest auction prices are achieved and this proved to be the case again this year. Even the AA “color commentator” stated to the crowd that he thought most bikes were selling at 30% or more below what he expected them to go for on that night.

When the high bid on our CB400F achieved $3800 (within a couple of hundred dollars of our reserve), we let it go and sold the bike. It turned out that was a very good move as our selling price was more than twice that of the next nicest CB400F (a yellow 1977) that sold for $1500 late on Saturday afternoon.

 

In the end, we sold our bike for about $1500 less than we had invested in it but we are still happy the bike has moved on to another owner.

2. Our 1966 Triumph T120R Bonneville had a high bid of $9500 at Auctions America on Friday. When it didn’t hit reserve, it went into the “Still For Sale” area. There we had one offer that we didn’t accept. We think our ’66 would have easily hit our reserve price of $11,000 if it had been at the Midamerica auction. We brought it back to Apache Junction on Sunday.

3. We purchased a 1912 Triumph for $8000 … a very low price for such an old motorcycle in such good condition.

This 1912 was a machine that we bid on at Midamerica in 2006 but lost out to another collector who paid $13,000 back then. This time, the machine was offered at no reserve on Thursday night. We are really excited to put this one in our collection and as soon as it is cleaned and photographed, we will post a blog featuring it on this site.

Note: we sent pictures of the 1912 to our friend Peter Cornelius in New Zealand, who is the Triumph vintage expert for the Vintage Motorcycle Club in England. Peter’s early assessment of the bike is that it is a very original survivor and was a terrific buy. He is providing us with complete details about this bike that we will be sharing on this site.

4. We bought a very rare 1966 Triumph T100SC for Leroy Turner, paying only $1500. This "core" motorcycle was one of the very last machines to come to the stage on Saturday while Leroy was still at Midamerica. Since Leroy had expressed high interest in this machine at the beginning of the auction, we took the chance to bid on it for him. Later that evening, when he learned we had won the bike for him at such a low price, he was delighted. The bike is now in El Paso where Leroy plans to perform a full restoration and keep the bike for himself.

Las Vegas turned out to be a much more exciting and exhausting experience than we’ve had previously, but very worthwhile nonetheless.

Terry Clark begins restoration of another 1938 Speed Twin! Part 3 of a multi-part posting …Parts search success

Terry feels his progress on the restoration of the 38 Speed Twin has been a bit slow but nevertheless he has made some headway worth reporting.

First of all, Terry was able to contact Rob Stockdale in the UK who is a leading expert on pre war Triumphs. Rob has amassed an amazing amount of pre-war Triumph information and maintains a registry of bikes. Although most of Triumph’s records were destroyed in the war when the Germans bombed Coventry, Rob has still been able to resurrect a significant amount of data on the pre-war machines and he is able to determine authenticity for many of them. Fortunately for Terry, Rob found that his Speed Twin came from the factory as a matched engine, frame and gear box ... very good news indeed.

The next step for Terry is to completely disassemble the bike. Before doing so, however, he has been fitting all the sheet metal and other parts that he has obtained from Ace Classics and other sources. Pre-fitting all parts is a very important step before painting as any adjustments need to be made now so the paint doesn’t get scratched during final assembly.

Terry reports the front mudguard and stays went on without a hitch but the rear has been a challenge for him. It appears the front part of the rear mudguard is made slightly too wide and won’t allow the fender to mount straight. With some minor adjustments, Terry got the mudguard to mount properly and it is now aligned with the rear wheel but after that another problem surfaced. When he tried to mount the correct and original tool box, the fender won’t allow the box to sit properly as it runs up against the mudguard causing the tool box mounting tabs to not properly align. The mudguard is still too wide at that point, but Terry feels confident that with some time to study the problem combined with lots of head scratching, he will find a solution.

As you can see in the pictures, Terry has acquired an 8” headlight from Cornucopia enterprises in Germany and it is an outstanding reproduction of the original and a perfect fit.

Terry also acquired a speedometer drive box for the front wheel from eBay UK. It was expensive but he really had no other option.

He still needs a speedometer but other than searching eBay frequently, he hasn’t pursed any other sourcing options.

Terry obtained an original Lucas switch for the tank top but the chrome bezel needs re-chroming. Does anybody reading this posting know how to get the bezel off without breaking the switch??? If so, let us know!

The bike came with a Eureka Oil pressure gauge buried deep in a box of junk and in very poor condition. Terry sent a picture off to several repair company’s in the US and is going to try UK company’s that have been suggested by several readers of this website. So far, he has received mostly negative responses with the exception of Instrument Services Inc in Illinois who were very positive about being able to restore it. It is now in their hands and Terry has fingers crossed they can complete the repair.

Once Terry gets the tool box alignment sorted out and disassembles the bike, he can look at the engine and gear box internals as well as the girder fork spindles.

Terry will disassemble the wheels and get the rims into the chrome shop which is sometimes a 2 month waiting period. The wheel rims have to be done prior to paint as the rim centers are painted and lined on this model, of course.

Our next posting will most probably focus on the engine rebuild that will start in March or April when Terry’s engine guru returns from sunnier climes to the Pacific Northwest.

Many more pictures of this motorcycle appear in the photo album.

Preview of the 2012 Las Vegas Motorcycle Auction(s)…

The big news is that there will be three motorcycles auctions in Las Vegas from January 12 through 14, 2012.

Midamerica had been the only game in town until Bonham’s started up a one night motorcycle auction in January 2011. But now a major newcomer has come online … Auction America by RM is holding their premier motorcycle auction in Las Vegas on exactly the same timeline as Midamerica!

Midamerica auctions over the years have seen little change other than the venue. Earlier Midamerica auctions were held on the strip at the Tropicana and Stardust. About five years ago, the venue moved to South Point where there was reportedly more space to expand the auction. Unfortunately, we didn’t see the auction expand in size very much as there is still only a single auction block for the motorcycles to go across. In addition, South Point is so far from the major action in Las Vegas, it takes quite a while to drive to the best entertainment and restaurants that Las Vegas has to offer. So most people don’t make the trip and are stuck at South Point.

Bonham’s is held at the Imperial Palace which is right on the Strip and the newcomer, Auctions America, has booked the fabulous Rio All Suites and Casino for their auction which is right across the freeway from Caesar’s Palace. From a location perspective alone, the competitors seem to have the advantage.

We believe that buyers and sellers having more auction choices will be better for everyone including Midamerica in the long run.

Here are some details and information on all three auctions …

Midamerica

Midamerica will hold their 21st annual motorcycle auction in Las Vegas at the South Coast Casino and Exhibition Hall from January 12 through 14, 2012. The format of the Midamerica auction will be as in years past with a dinner on Thursday night followed by an auction of about 50 bikes.

Full day auctions on both Friday and Saturday will see about 200 motorcycles go across the block each day.

Midamerica once again will offer both no reserve and reserve auctions. For those wishing to go no reserve, a $300 fee is charged which is deducted from the 7% sales commission (minimum $750!)

Trying to figure out whether to consign a motorcycle with or without a reserve can be confusing, but buyers pay the same 7% buyer’s premium whether the motorcycle they are buying has a reserve or not.

Below are examples of fees and commissions at Midamerica for no reserve motorcycles that represent the low ($6000) and middle ($12,000) price range of Triumph sales at auction recently.

1. A no reserve bike selling at $6000 would have a zero entry fee with a 7% commission of $430, but the minimum of $750 would apply, bringing the sales commission percentage up to a whopping 12.5%! Sales proceeds would be $5250. Buyers would be charged the $6000 plus another 7% or $430 ($125 minimum would be exceeded) for a total of $6430.

2. A no reserve bike selling at $12,000 would have a zero entry fee with a 7% commission of $840, giving net sales proceeds of $11,160. (Most owners in this price range are very reluctant to sell with no reserve so this may be a rare example). Buyers would pay the full $12,000 plus 7% commission of $840 ($125 minimum would be exceeded) for a total of $12,840.

For reserve auctions, the Midamerica $300 entry fee is non-refundable with a 9% sales commission (no commission if not sold).

Here are examples of fees and commissions at Midamerica for the same motorcycles as above, but this time with a reserve …

1. A reserve bike selling at $6000 would incur a $300 non-refundable entry fee with a 9% commission of $540, (there is no minimum of $750 for reserve auctions), bringing the total sales commission to $840. Sales proceeds would be $5160 which is little different than the selling at no reserve example above. Buyers would be charged the $6000 plus another 7% or $430 ($125 minimum would be exceeded) as in the no reserve auction.

2. A reserve bike selling at $12,000 would incur the $300 entry fee with a 9% commission of $1080, for a total commission of $1380 giving sales proceeds of $10,620 or only 88.5% of the sales price. Buyers would pay the full $12,000 plus 7% commission of $840 ($125 minimum would be exceeded) as in the no reserve case.

The current list of consignments for the 2012 Midamerica auction show that about 65 Triumphs are once again going to be auctioned. If you want to check out more details, the Midamerica website is … http://midamericaauctions.com/default.asp

Bonham’s

Last year (January 2011), Bonham’s held a competing motorcycle auction on the first evening of the Midamerica event (Thursday). The Bonham’s auction was reportedly a big success, selling 200 motorcycles and grossing $2.5 million in just the single night.

Owing to that success, this year Bonham’s will again be holding their one night auction on January 12 at the Imperial Palace in Las Vegas. The entry fee to consign a motorcycle is $500 and the sales commission is 10% (with some reductions allowed for volume sales). Evidently everything is sold with a reserve.

Unfortunately, the Bonham’s buyer’s premium on motorcycles sold for under $100,000 is 17% as compared to only 7% at Midamerica!

If we have interpreted the Bonham’s fee structure correctly, our two example bikes above, with reserves, would yield the following proceeds …

1. The $6000 motorcycle would be charged $500 entry fee and 10% commission ($600) for a total of $1100 or 18.4% of the sales price! Total proceeds would be $4900. Buyers would pay 17% more than the sales price ($1020) for a total of $7020. Bonham’s would clear $2120 or 35.3% of the sales price!

2. The $12,000 motorcycle above would incur the $500 entry fee plus a commission of $1200 for a total of $1700 (14.2 %!), netting 10,300. Buyers would be hit for 17% buyer’s premium or $2040 for a total of $14,040. Bonham’s would clear $3740 or 31.7% of the sales price!

As of this date, the list of Bonham’s consignments is a bit sketchy but should firm up within the next few weeks.

If you are interested in monitoring this auction, you should check their website at: http://www.bonhams.com/usa/carsusalasvegas/

Auctions America by RM

As reported above, this year there is a significant new game in town … Auctions America by RM is holding a concurrent auction to Midamerica at the Rio All Suites Hotel near the main Las Vegas Strip. Auctions America claims they intend to attract a different type of buyer than Midamerica has over the years. We interpret that to mean buyers with deeper pockets than those who have typically attended Midamerica. The featured Auctions America consignments certainly support that interpretation with the star of the show, an 1894 Roper Steam Motorcycle projected to go across the block at an estimated price of over $1 million!

Auctions America plans to keep their auctions going until 8 PM on both Friday and Saturday night. That is good news for the owners of later consignments those days. In past years, we have seen the rush across the block that has occurred at Midamerica when they realized that they won’t make the 6 PM close without pulling out all the stops. Not good news for those consigned near the end! It has been obvious to all in attendance that better pacing of the Midamerica auction and fewer interruptions by Ron Christianson might have easily alleviated this problem.

Certainly one big advantage for Auctions America over Midamerica is their location at the Rio All Suites Hotel and Casino. The Rio is a Caesars property right across Interstate 15 from Caesar’s Place and is the site of many World Series of Poker events.

The entry fee to consign a motorcycle at Auctions America is $250 and the sales commission is 6% with no reserve and 8% with a reserve. Both reserve and no reserve consignments pay the non-refundable $250. Buyers pay a premium of 12% however!

Our two example bikes from above with no reserves, would yield the following results …

1. A no reserve bike selling at $6000 would have a $250 entry fee with a 6% commission of $360 for a total of $610, resulting in a sales commission percentage of 10.2%! Sales proceeds would be $5390. Buyers would be charged the $6000 plus another 12% or $720 for a total of $6720.

2. A no reserve bike selling at $12,000 would have a $250 entry fee with a 6% commission of $720, for a total of $970, resulting in a sales commission percentage of 8.3%. Buyers would pay the full $12,000 plus 12% commission of $1440 for a total of $13,440.

Here are examples of fees and commissions at Auction America for the same motorcycles as above, but this time with a reserve …

1. A no reserve bike selling at $6000 would have a $250 entry fee with an 8% commission of $480 for a total of $730, resulting in a sales commission percentage of 12.2%! Sales proceeds would be $5270. Buyers would again be charged the $6000 plus another 12% or $720 for a total of $6720.

2. A no reserve bike selling at $12,000 would have a $250 entry fee with an 8% commission of $960, for a total of $1210, resulting in a sales commission percentage of 10.1%. Buyers would again pay the full $12,000 plus 12% commission of $1440 for a total of $13,440.

Currently, Auctions America has about 30 Triumph motorcycles on their consignment list. You can check out the details of Auction America and their full list of consignments at … http://www.auctionsamerica.com/events/event.cfm?SaleCode=LV12

Which auction to attend? …

If you are planning to buy, the difference in buyer’s premiums must be taken into consideration. Midamerica is the lowest at 7%, Auctions America in the middle at 12% and Bonham’s way out of sight at 17%. Of course, it all depends on what you intend to buy. If Bonham’s is offering a motorcycle that really interests you then paying their 17% commission may not be that big an issue for you.

On the seller’s side, it may make sense to sell lower priced bikes at Auctions America since Midamerica’s $750 minimum on no reserve offerings will easily overtake the $250 entry fee at Auctions America.

Since mid-priced bikes in the $12K range will probably be offered at reserve, Midamerica or AA are comparable, but Bonham’s seems to be overpriced.

Which auction will we attend? …

We have decided to attend both the Midamerica and Auctions America auctions this year, moving between them as motorcycles of interest come on the block. It will take us about half an hour to make the trip between the two venues so we need to really plan things out well. We’ll keep an eye on the Bonham’s consignment list but with a buyer’s premium of 17%, there would have to be a pretty significant machine to make us attend just the one night event on Thursday.

Where will we stay? …

It wasn’t difficult to determine where we will stay given the obvious difference between the Rio near the strip and South Point 15-30 minutes out of town …we plan to stay at the Rio. My wife will actually travel to the auction with me this time since she will be very close to all the action and shopping on the Las Vegas strip rather than on the far edge of it at the Midamerica venue.

Which event will we consign our motorcycles to? …

We will be taking two motorcycles to Las Vegas this year. The first is an original 1976 Honda CB400F that we bought last year. This is a terrific little bike that we have enjoyed bringing back to full factory specs. It certainly isn’t a show bike like almost all of the other motorcycles we own and that is the reason we are selling it. We have decided to consign that bike to the premier event at Auctions America with a low reserve.

We are a bit concerned about the higher 12% buyer’s premium versus the lower 7% offered by Midamerica, but we’ll take our chances that our bike will still attain a good price at the Rio.

Our other motorcycle consignment is one of our 1966 Triumph T120R Bonnevilles. This is a motorcycle that we purchased about 5 years ago as a vintage rider. It has seen limited use in the past few years but is still in pristine condition. Dave Wedlake is just finishing up a beautiful 1964 Bonneville that will take the place of this motorcycle as our vintage rider so we have decided to sell this one.

We have decided to consign this motorcycle to Auctions America and auction it with a reasonable reserve.

Leroy Turner Motorcycles going to Las Vegas …

Leroy Turner will be taking two Triumphs to Las Vegas this year and has consigned them to Midamerica. Both of these bikes have been offered for sale on this website.

The first is a beautiful 1968 Triumph T100C Trophy 500 that has been fully restored. Here is the link to the Midamerica pictures and description … http://www.midamericaauctions.com/html/showvehicle.asp?VehicleID=21902

The second Leroy Turner restoration being auctioned at Midamerica is a 1968 Triumph TR6C. Here is the link and description of that motorcycle as seen on the Midamerica consignment list … http://www.midamericaauctions.com/html/showvehicle.asp?VehicleID=21901

Terry Clark begins restoration of another 1938 Speed Twin! Part 2 of a multi-part posting …The search for parts begins

Unfortunately, Terry can't jump into the ’38 Speed twin restoration immediately as he still has to finish a 1974 Norton Commando that is progressing slowly. That hasn’t stopped him from starting his parts search however.

The first call Terry made on his parts search was to Kevin at Ace Classics in London http://www.aceclassics.co.uk/home to find the sheet metal and nuts and bolts required for the restoration. Some of you may know Ace Classics from the TV show segment that “Café Racer” ran on that company last month.

Kevin was able to provide the correct front fender and stays for a girder fork, the correct two piece rear fender as well as the lifting handle and stays. He also furnished the top and bottom chain guards, rear stand, all the fixing hardware and the front stand. He had a set of handlebars that are a very good match for the trashed originals along with all the engine and gear box studs. He also went out of his way to locate a set of headlight mounting stays.

After that, Terry contacted Peter at Cornucopia in Germany http://home.arcor.de/cornucopia/. In the past, Peter has provided some very hard to find parts for Terry’s restorations but unfortunately most of Peter’s old spares have now been used up. Peter once provided Terry with a front wheel speedo drive box but that supply is now gone. Peter also had provided 8" headlights in the past and says he may be able to make some in the future but currently the 8” headlight is still on the “unobtainium” list. On the positive side, Peter was able to supply the front brake rod and the shielded speedo cable, so some progress was made.

The Altette horns and brackets are becoming increasingly hard to find and expensive but there is only one place to go to find out where to get one … "Taff the Horn" http://taffthehorns.com/. Lynn Isaac has an amazing knowledge of horns and has done restorations for Terry in the past. Although Lynn was somewhat reluctant at first, Terry persuaded him to sell the correct horn he had just finished.

EBay has been somewhat helpful to Terry. He found a gentleman in Australia who was making the knurled adjusters for the girder forks along with the top spindle nut. Of great importance is that the correct front wheel speedo drive box may now be on the way to Terry but he won't know for certain until it arrives. These drive boxes are hard to find and if you are trying to source one, be very careful as it is possible to get an incorrect version as many rotate the wrong way for a Triumph.

The fuel tank has been sent to Dave Wedlake in Portland so he can assess the condition under the nasty paint. After that, Dave will then send it on to Ross Thompson http://www.execulink.com/~rosst/ so Ross can restore it and get it chromed. Ross has done tanks for Terry in the past and as you can see from his web site he does incredible work. After Ross is done with his work, Dave Wedlake will paint the tank and the rest of the bike, if and when Terry is able to obtain all the parts. Dave painted Terry’s 1948 Tiger 100 as well as about half of the Triumphs in our collection so the quality of his work is well known.

The engine restoration is going to be a challenge. Some of the fins are broken from previous "mechanic’s" work and as this is a very rare barrel so the fins will have to be fixed. Fortunately, Terry’s engine guy is Bruce Holland, an old time Triumph racer and dealer. Bruce thinks the engine repairs will be "no problem".

Bruce and Terry have decided to put in a crank shaft with shelled rod bearings rather than the white metal bearings the engine came with. This will make the engine run much better and be infinitely rebuildable which is important as Terry plans on riding the bike. Terry plans to do the disassembly of the gear box and engine himself and only go to the "experts" if he runs into something he hasn’t seen before.

Terry still needs help finding the following parts and any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Please respond in the comments section below.

1. Eureka oil gauge or the location of somebody who can restore the one he has.

2. 8" headlight … this one has no instruments in it … it is just a Lucas King of the Road with button on top.

3. Smiths or Jaeger 90 mph Speedo

4. Genuine Lucas light switch for the tank top

5. Genuine amp gauge for the tank top